Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
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| How in the world can Chang receive both marks and be represented as being "saved"? I know the books says he was "forced" to receive the mark of the beast, but the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters or have both marks. You really should have had Chang stand for God and become a Trib Saint. I mean, this IS fiction, isn't it? Not everything in these books are in line with the Bible. Is that the case? Should these books be seen as "fiction" and be left at that? | |||||||||
Veteran
Reg Date:
December 5, 2001
Num Post: 2854
| Posted: | 10/22/2002 6:04:02 PM | |
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| Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: The verb translated as "receive" there doesn't mean "take willingly" as Jerry implied above. Rather, there, it means he, the beast, will give them all a mark. "Causeth" means he will make them have it. Not that they will get to say, Oh, no, not today. But that they will get it or die. Chang, I agree why, had an opportunity to make a choice and stand for his belief. Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Whoever isn't willing to stand for their belief, Jesus says, He will not stand for either. No matter that it's fiction, Jerry, that's a cop-out. Too many folks read these books, whether you like it or not, and get their theology from them. They believe what you've taught in here. And, Jerry, if it makes you feel better, you were not the only one rude to why for absolutely no reason. A simple question was asked and instead of answering it, everyone jumped on why's case and assumed they "knew" what was going on. K ------------------------------
If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for. ~Charles Spurgeon The Hiding Place
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Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
| Posted: | 10/22/2002 6:08:08 PM | |
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| "Me thinks the author doth protest too much." Hey Jerry, don't feel too special. I also write to Steven King, Patricia Cornwell, etc. and ask them to explain parts of their plots I don't understand or need clarification on. They, however, don't get "uppity" with fans. Michelle | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
November 29, 2001
Num Post: 3448
| Posted: | 10/22/2002 7:00:22 PM | |
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| My mama always taught me the proper response to an apology was apology accepted. I guess you were right Mr. Jenkins. | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
July 21, 2001
Num Post: 4116
| Posted: | 10/22/2002 7:07:31 PM | |
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| Quite frankly, why, I've seen the same thing. And I fail to see how I was as snippy as Jerry - and if I was it's not right - but nor am I the reason and focus of the website.... ------------------------------ "The life of a Christian is death to self. Dying to self involves dying to everything of this world. Dying to your country, your family, your hopes, your dreams, and everything you could ever want. The Christian life is not about you, it's about your death." | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
July 25, 2001
Num Post: 94
| Posted: | 10/22/2002 7:43:35 PM | |
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| Like I've said before, I'm not Mr. Jenkins, who has spoken already, but... LIke I said Michelle, there is a lot of bad tastes in a lot of people's mouths over Eric, who is a witch-hunter at best, and at worst, I don't know. Believe me, you don't know what kind of Cain he raised on here. I'll just say that if he posts on here again, criminal harassing or stalking charges may be in order. He was that bad, and always accused Mr. Jenkins of basically being a New Age deceiver and occultist. And, as I said before, one of his favorite weapons (besides the disgusting so-called Reverend Sun Myung Moon) was that somehow Chang WILLINGLY (caps are too loud -- I wish for italics) took the mark. What Mr. Jenkins has said that the evil mark was FORCED on a drugged, out-to-lunch, couldn't fight back, Chang. Like I said, I wouldn't have written it in a book (like I said, God wouldn't let it happen), but I honestly believe Mr. Jenkins wouldn't endorse something so unscriptural. Do I think you're Eric? No. You're too nice and you don't abuse the letter "Z". Maybe that will help. And Obi...like I said, I don't know how much you're on here (you're a veteran poster, I see), but like I said, there's almost an Eric-phobia on here. While I'm not endorsing that, I see the reasoning behind it. When people are stressed, they sometimes don't behave the best. It doesn't make it right, but it does explain it. And hopefully, maybe, everybody can get along again. ------------------------------ Serving Him, Mike | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
| Posted: | 10/23/2002 7:01:39 AM | |
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| Yes, the response to an apology is an apology accepted. BUT his apology was "I'm sorry, but...", and that is not acceptable. I believe he said that with reservation, and that isn't how apologies are given. Think of me as you will, that's O.K. He called me an "Eric clone", and I am made to believe that is not such a nice thing. To that I take offense. I am thankful, however, for the folks who accepted me and my question in the nature that it was asked, and thank you, to some, for your nicer first-experience on this site. Michelle | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
January 19, 2002
Num Post: 152
| Posted: | 10/23/2002 8:01:28 AM | |
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| why... Then the best thing to do now is to say "I understand what you wrote, Jerry, but I disagree. We'll see what happens from heaven after we are raptured (pre-Trib, of course)".... To those that say "God will not allow that to happen" with regards to being drugged, etc.---how do you know? Rev 11:13 tells of an earthquake in Jerusalem. I am there on vacation. A huge piece of some building falls on my head giving me a gaping head wound. I am a devote follower of Christ that has barely made it to this point in the tribulation. I slip into a deep coma. I am out for months. While in the coma, I have the mark forced on me because they want to keep track of the patients better (or some other lame excuse). I guess when I wake up I can say "I'm a Christian, please kill me!" Chang went through severe anguish and doubt (as I remember the book) and wanted to kill himself (either by his own hand or by exposing his belief). There will be over 3 billion people still on the planet when these things take place (if events went into motion today, more if it happens a year or more away). Do you know the odds of this circumstance NOT happening? On the other hand, I believe God is big and powerful enough to NOT allow this to happen to anyone. Does it really matter? Don’t we have enough faith in God to trust He will take care of us? I find it harder to believe a merciful God would have us commit literal suicide IF the "coma" scenario were to play out. To say Jerry is misleading people is to ignore the Miklos, Steve Plank, and Big Zeke (to name a few!) that have paid the ultimate price for the beliefs. Funny how everyone that attacks Jerry on Chang never mentions the many others that have been killed for not taking the MOB. God Bless C-IBO | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
December 20, 2001
Num Post: 65
| Posted: | 10/23/2002 12:56:39 PM | |
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| I totally agree with lbo 2 about God have very powerful to stop anybody to give the MOB on the Christian ppl. but sometime I was wondering what if it ever happen like Chang's situations. It could be possible that God know the ppl's future and knew what is the best for trib ppl. It can be happen to give them slip through the MOB while the Christian was aware of MOB and deny it in the first place and drug out and got mark on them ... It could be undercover for these ppl to help trib out just like david did before Chang came into that placements. but maybe maybe maybe I am wrong about that. | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
December 5, 2001
Num Post: 2854
| Posted: | 10/23/2002 1:17:19 PM | |
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| The Bible is clear that anyone with the mark is condemned to hell. It's great to speculate, but don't let your imagination take precedence over Biblical fact. You must take a stand. No one in the time of great tribulation is less special than those prior to the time of great tribulation. Christians are Christians and we'll all be here for the time of great tribulation (provided we're still alive by then), so ya'll may as well buck up, get used to it and realize that it doesn't matter what Jerry and Tim speculated in the book. It only matters what the Bible says. Karen ------------------------------
If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for. ~Charles Spurgeon The Hiding Place
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Rookie
Reg Date:
September 13, 2002
Num Post: 135
| Posted: | 10/23/2002 2:28:15 PM | |
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| Personally, I think he would have taken a stand at the site, but he was drugged before that. PZ PS. Mr. Jenkins is right. I don't think he was "uppity". And why, about writing to authors, do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on? ------------------------------ For He shall give His angels charge over You, to keep You in all Your ways. Psalm 91:11 | ||