Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
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| How in the world can Chang receive both marks and be represented as being "saved"? I know the books says he was "forced" to receive the mark of the beast, but the Bible says you can't serve 2 masters or have both marks. You really should have had Chang stand for God and become a Trib Saint. I mean, this IS fiction, isn't it? Not everything in these books are in line with the Bible. Is that the case? Should these books be seen as "fiction" and be left at that? | |||||||||
Veteran
Reg Date:
December 30, 2001
Num Post: 501
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 2:50:34 AM | |
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I think it is now time to offer a historical perspective. Here is a part of an article revealing the lies some "Christians" are subject to. Does it sound familiar to you? (Taken from Tricia Tillin's site.) ------------------------------------------ "Not content to simply hold these beliefs quietly without condemning others (as the bible commands) they make it their business to label anyone who does not happen to subscribe to conspiracy theories as a deceiver. Indeed, if you do NOT agree with them you are likely to find your name appearing on their ever-lengthening list of those in cahoots with the New World Order!! Because some of them also produce long articles on conspiracies, they have been mistaken as serious researchers. But although their articles appear at first glance to be weighty and filled with information, on reading them one quickly discovers the methodology to be fatally flawed. They construct a case to suit their own perceptions out of widely differing pieces of information taken out of proper context and play the "guilt by association" game to link people and events together that in reality have no connection. If two events happened in the same locality or the same year, or if two organisations hosted the same speaker, these "researchers" conclude that there must be a network of like-minded participants "organising something". This is not only their conclusion for historical events, but also today's conferences. It has been stated that individual discernment ministers, because they happen to speak together on the same platform one time, have some kind of secret underground organisation going that "plans the apostasy". When you ask for the evidence of this, they wink and nod wisely and rub their noses as much as to say, well there's no evidence, but we know anyway! One has to wonder at their reasons for casting suspicion on those who are simply trying to expose the apostasy and New World Order. But work it out for yourselves. Suspicions are planted and people's reputations are tarnished, all because of a lie. This is not the work of God, folks. It is LUCIFER who is the "Accuser of the Brethren" and his method is identical to that used by these women." ------------------------------------------ If you believe these words are responses to Mr Jewell, Ms Ruby, and Co, you are mistaken! In fact they refer to a lady called Vicky Dillen, and associates such as "Barbara Aho (Watch Unto Prayer), Wendy Howard and Wendy Beutser (Despatch Magazine), Steve Van Nattan (Balaam's Ass), Tom Lamb (Radical Pilgrim), an anonymous Montana-based conspiracy nut ("Watcher" website), George and Rita Williams (Cephas Ministry) and a number of right-wing patriot sites such as "Youth Of America"". They believe that "the gifts of the Spirit in this day and age to be already halfway to the devil, with the Pentecostal Movement and what they call the "Zionist" movement as kingpins of the New World Order! And to believe anything other than the pre-seven-year rapture or to read any bible other than the 1611 King James brings you under the deepest suspicion." In other words, they believe that those who aren't pre-trib (such as Eric Jewell, Lisa Ruby  ) are hell-bound apostates! (Well the people from Watch Unto Prayer and End Times Warriors could have a debate with each other. Maybe they could have a shout match to see who are more apostate )YBIC, Joel ------------------------------ "But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." 1 Thess 5:8-10 (NKJV) Joel H aka former J_H from: New Zealand (Auckland) born in: Hong Kong Recommended sites: In Touch Ministries Radio Bible Class World Magazine Hong Kong Chinese Christian Mission (in Chinese) The Society for Truth and Light (in Chinese) Concerned Women for America Breakthrough Magazine (in Chinese) | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 7:06:27 AM | |
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| Dear sir, I'm sorry you were so rude to me. As a matter of fact, I HAVE read the books and enjoyed them all. I haven't, however, enjoyed your attitude of "well, you OBVIOUSLY don't understand me or my work which is SO DEEEEEEEEEP. I asked a question that bothered me for some time. I only asked to see if the Chang thing was a belief that you yourself harboured or if it was part of the fiction to make the book "work". I am sad to say that this probably be the last time I will write to you. You're probably happy because you don't seem to want to answer questions from a fan. I am a fan, but if this is what it's all about for you, then I don't know if continuing to buy and read the series is for me. You know, the people on this board and elsewhere are paying your salary (as far as these books are concerned) and you MIGHT want to try giving a little more courtesy and a little less smug. why.... | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
October 20, 2002
Num Post: 9
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 7:16:23 AM | |
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| Oh, and to the person with the "what if a new baby were marked" comment. I believe that children have to reach an age of accountability before they would be "left behind". That's why ALL the children were taken in the Rapture. If a baby were marked, that baby would go to Heaven because he had not reached the age of accountability. Chang, however, had reached that age. He know that he would be forced to take the mark if he didn't run or do something. He chose not to run AND he chose not to proclaim his love and belief in Christ. He didn't live up to the beliefs he proclaimed. I know the book says he was marked by God before he received the m.o.b., but the way it looks, it reads like "well, I DO love and believe in Christ, but for convenience sake, I'm going to get the mark so I can go to Walmart without problems". I asked about this being "fiction" to find out if this was the author's belief or was this JUST a story line. Authors belief, more debate. Story line, let it go. Talk about much ado about nothing.... why... | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
January 29, 2002
Num Post: 458
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 9:52:57 AM | |
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| OK, One question, if a person is raped should their spouse divorce them for adultery? ------------------------------ Jesus is risen indeed!!! See you in the Glorious Appearing! (April 2004 or another date if that one is changed.) | ||
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 10:01:22 AM | |
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| You are not Buck Williams and this is not your cyber magazine. Plus, get rid of the Non-God honoring picture in your signiture. | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
January 19, 2002
Num Post: 152
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 1:08:22 PM | |
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| Obi--- WOW! Your panties are sure in a bunch! From the tone of the original post, the person (whoever they claim to be) was not being innocent (IMO). The second and third posts were more of the same. Banned for being to the point---no. Banned for not being who you say you are---yes. Relax. Read a Psalm. Drink some tea. Use the REAL force.... ----- why... How do YOU know Chang had reached the age? What does the Bible say is the age of accountability? Can it be different for each of us? What about the Kids Series? Some of them are under 16 and were Left Behind. Jerry explained (through the character of Tsion) all about Chang's double mark. If you don't agree, OK. Your choice. End of discussion. What if God allowed Chang to get the double mark? C-IBO | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
November 20, 2001
Num Post: 2543
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 3:34:30 PM | |
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why... has not acted at all like Eric or any of the other ETW members! He/She was only a little confused, so they came to ask a question. He/she was not slamming JBJ, or TL, nor were they condemning them to hell. So why did we automatically assume this person was Eric or one of his friends??? why..., let my apologize for some of these other users. They had no right to just assume you were this other person. ------------------------------
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Veteran
Reg Date:
July 21, 2001
Num Post: 4116
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 4:11:04 PM | |
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"From the tone of the original post, the person (whoever they claim to be) was not being innocent (IMO)." Are you going to answer my question? How does this justify treating him like dirt? ------------------------------
"The life of a Christian is death to self. Dying to self involves dying to everything of this world. Dying to your country, your family, your hopes, your dreams, and everything you could ever want. The Christian life is not about you, it's about your death." | ||
Rookie
Reg Date:
July 25, 2001
Num Post: 94
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 4:59:54 PM | |
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I can't speak for anyone else on the board, but... First of all why...like I said, I can see where you're coming from. Chang didn't voluntarily take the mark, which in the books meant he didn't take it of his own accord and therefore hadn't rejected Christ and accepted Satan. However...in real life, my personal opinion...not gonna happen. I don't think God would allow it, for what I think are obvious reasons. Second, Obi...I'm sorry this has gotten out of hand. I'm not sure Mr. Jenkins meant anything bad, but I can't speak for him. (I'm just a small-town newspaper writer from Illinois) One of the main reasons I re-told the Eric fiasco is because I didn't know if why... knew it. If I sounded condescending, I apologize. Third, to everyone...why is there more sniping (no reference to the psycho in the DC area meant) on here? We're not dealing with Eric, so let's not be mean. Anyways, take care. ------------------------------ Serving Him, Mike | ||
Veteran
Reg Date:
July 21, 2001
Num Post: 4116
| Posted: | 10/21/2002 5:03:02 PM | |
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It's okay. Sorry if I misinterpreted you.
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"The life of a Christian is death to self. Dying to self involves dying to everything of this world. Dying to your country, your family, your hopes, your dreams, and everything you could ever want. The Christian life is not about you, it's about your death." | ||